So I finally got a chance to run my 1850 test list. I think I will only get a single shot at testing before the standish standoff, so I had to make it count. So I ran it against another Mono-Nurgle CSM force.
GUO w/ breath
7 plague bearers
7 plague bearers
14 plague bearers w/ Icon
14 cultists w/ autoguns and MoN
7 Warp talons w/ MoN (Champ with melta bombs) and Veterans of long war
7 Havocs w/ Vets of Long War, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers with Flakk Missiles
DPoN w/ Wings, Armor, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, and Breath of Chaos
Lord on Bike w/ Dimensional Key, Brand of Skalanthrax, Black Mace, MoN, Sigil of Corruption (that’s right, lotsa points)
20 cultists w/ MoN
20 cultists w/ MoN
10 CSM w/ MoN
7 CSM w/ MoN
Vindicator w/ siege shield
7 Bikers w/ MoN
5 Raptors w/ MoN
ADL w/ quad gun
We played the creative twilight game vengeance. He went first, I had my Havocs w/ Typhus and cultists on the table. Due to a poor deployment choice, my havocs were a weeee bit too close to the vindicator and it cost me a las cannon and a missile launcher turn one. Other than that he simply maneuvered some. My turn I then fired the havocs at the vindicator causing it to explode with my lascannon. My GUO and Epidemius with the 14 plaguebearers dropped in.
He, in his turn 2, got his raptors in and shot up my havocs and ended up killing two more. The bikers assaulted the GUO and would end up killing him after 3 assault phases in a challenge between the lord and the GUO. The GUO did put two wounds on him before he died. My turn 2 my talons came in and failed to blind the bikers (passed their I test). All my daemons would come in as well.
Now, the table was divided for most of the rest of the game:
Left side would be for three full turns the bikers, the talons, and the GUO. By the end of the 3rd turn, the bikers would have emerged from both assaults with only 2 wounds on the lord and 3 less bikers.
The right side saw my plaguebearers (all 3 squads) and DPoN sweeping through and destroying the smaller squad of CSM and both cultist squads.
Typhus and the havocs killed off the raptors in an assault.
He assaults a squad of 7 plaguebearers with his bikers on turn 4. The assault stagnates, allowing another squad to assault, killing off the rest as the tally is now to 20+.
This left him having only completely killed the talons and the GUO. In a last effort, he empties his land raider and shoots down the now swooping DPoN (well, it had 2 wounds left, and wounds with a melta gun and a bolt pistol…which I failed both saves for). Those CSM were dealt with by Typhus and a squad of 6 plague bearers. The Havoc champ attempts to use his powerfist to deal with the land raider but fails to do anything more than strip a single hullpoint off of it. The game ends with him having a landraider on the table.
I won with 11 kill points to his 5 (the DPoN was worth 3 by this point), controlling all 4 objectives, and controlling 3 table quarters to his 0. I also had a single unit left alive worth 3 or more KP (a Plaguebearer unit) meaning I won 31-0.
Overall, a great game, a good showing of Nurgle. He seemed to be pretty inexperienced and had never faced a tally list before. I gave him some pointers and he was pretty excited overall to have learned some new nifty tactics for Nurgle. I feel my Nurgle list is ready for the Standoff and will make a strong showing there. It’s no tournament winning list, but perhaps it will be good enough to get me a good place like 4th or 5th. Perhaps if the ruinous powers be with me I can walk away with peoples choice, though I won’t get my hopes up.
i have to finish painting. I feel I have made some good progress, but I have to finish my army, finish my display tray, and finish my competition models…so yeah, I gots some serious work to do.
Either way, I am really stoked for the event and generally can’t wait!
Thanks for reading,
So, had the opportunity to play against some of my buddies who had not played in quite a while, and had never played 6th. I ended up playing two mini-games (first 3 turns each due to time constraints and to maximize the lessons learned and people playing). First was an 1850 vs 1850 and second was a team game of 1000 x 2 vs 1000 x 2.
So, with one of the larger tournaments I attend, the Standish Standoff which is a local hobby-centric tournament I attend annually in Standish Maine at my FLGS, looming on the horizon and how busy I am lately I am likely only to get in a handful of games before then. So I need to test out the new CSM for my Nurgle Tally list (my favorite as of late). But I need to identify what I need to add. I break it down into a few categories.
Speed: Yeah…nurgle daemons don’t do this generally speaking…it sucks.
Fire support: Again, daemons struggle with this. Even though some daemons CAN shoot, NO daemons can fire greater than 24″ with a sole exception of the Soulgrinder’s battle cannon. Psykers: Daemons don’t have any and they can be massive force multipliers and killers.
The Daemons can provide: Troops, Toughness, and Tally. Sort of the 3 T’s of Nurgle lists.
Well that said, I am looking at Havocs for fire support, Warp Talons for speed, Typhus for my HQ and Psyker, and cultsts (Zombies if they FAQ it to allow a MoN and large squads…or hell, maybe zombies anyways) for cheap troops that can be brutal if they get the tally up. However, I am lacking some serious melta (normally chosen and plagues, now both elites).
So that leaves an elite slot… With plagues being elites now, it changes things. So, my options, as I see them are: Hellbrute, Possessed, Plaguemarines, or Chosen.
So I tried the first two out as well as a confirmation for the talons, havocs, and Typhus (oh,… and cultists).
First game was against Tau. I ran Possessed this game in a rhino, and only 5 of them. However should these guys be the chosen to run the standoff, they will be in a rhino with Typhus. With S5, T5, 3/5++ save and 33% of the time power weapons and 33% of the time extra attacks, they have a good chance of bringing down most vehicles quite handily as well as posing a very real threat to pretty much any unit besides terminators. Throw in Typhus ( as he can fit in a rhino as long as only 8 possessed are in it) and between the psychic powers and the close combat power this unit is one to be focussed on, leaving my havocs, talons, and epidemius alone (though no one is going to ignore Kugath…he is a fire sink that normally shrugs off enough wounds to make the enemy sweat a little). With a Rhino, they can assault (most likely) turn two (18″ move, rhino gets blown up turn 1, 6″ disembark, next turn 6″ move and a 6″ assault means 36″ threat on turn two…)
Well, in the game I ran them, Typhus never saw the table as he didn’t come in turns 1,2, or 3. So the possessed ran up in their rhino. The rhino got popped and they came out and shrugged off a fair amount of fire. They then slaughtered a squad of Kroot and kept moving, the champion rolling on the boon table and getting rerolls to armor saves. They then kept going and just shrugged off a hellish amount of fire, making armor saves from the champion…well, like a champ. The game ended and all 5 were still on the table. These guys have awesome models, highly customizable, and are tough and strong to boot. Only downside is that they are a little pricey and have a low number of attacks.
The cultists worked exactly as T4 guardsmen are expected. They are great and cheap cannon fodder and good for holding those objectives. I will be using them with autoguns as I already have painted models for them. They are not a huge threat until they get the tally up and then at 20 they have the ability to drop full squads of terminators through volume of no armor save shots.
Plaguebearers continue to impress me, and now with SAP being less debilitative and HPs being what they are, a unit of plaguebearers can strip those rhinos and even vindicators down quick and in a hurry.
My GUO continued to shine. They are the only greater daemons that perform so consistently well that I cringe at not including them in an army. Tough to kill, with smash they are monsters against tanks, and against troops with their breath of chaos or aura of decay they can ruin anyone’s day. In this game he shugged off railguns, took two wounds from three turns of consolidated fire, and wiped a squad of crisis suits. Not bad seeing as he still had 3 wounds left.
Next game was a team game. Got to try out the hellbrute, finally my talons, and Typhus (as well as thousand sons which rolled terribly and died to 6 bolter wounds by only making one save as well as trying out a sorcerer with all kinds of goodies only for him to die to a lone railgun shot and he failed his LOS on a 2+ and his 3++ save. Damn.).
Hellbutes: Took him for his MM, but with only 1 shot, no VOLW, and the fact he is not a daemon, does not have it will not die, and has no invuln save, he fired once, missed, then was gunned down. He might work in some cases, but my first experience with him made me not eager to use him. he was out for sure!
The talons were assaulted by space wolves and fenrisian wolves. None of the assaulters survived and two talons died out of 5. With 2 attacks each, 3 for the champion, rerolls to wound, and preferred enemy (Space marine), and a T5 with 3+/5++ saves they are worth the cost. I just need a way to give them hatred, and they would be monsters in combat. A squad of 5 was good, 7 would be better, but likely I will stick with 5. I had stuck them with Typhus, but I will likely deploy them solo and let them go to work so the enemy is not overly tempted by so many points so densely packed. With the tally, they will wound on 2’s with rerolls and can ruin any unit’s day.
Lastly, Typhus. He was a monster…just like I figured. He stood toe to toe against a wolflord on a thunderwolf and won the combat by one wound (Typhus dealt two wounds, the wolflord dealt one). Alas, the wolf lord was eternal warrior and so did not die. Overall, it was the last assault of the game and the wolflord counted as destroyed as he lost by 5 or 6 and broke leaving Typus with 2 wounds left (had taken some shots previously) and 3 talons after a combat where they were originally outnumbered significantly.
So, I suspect that my list will encompass Chosen or Possessed. The Chose have the meltaguns, but without infiltrate they have to drive across the field. With no invuln, they become bait to plasma weaponry, and any of the myriad of AP3 weapons. The possessed are a little more survivable and after weapons and marks, aren’t significantly more expensive.
Thanks for reading,
So I ran this list
Yeah, pretty basic for my standard tally list. One of those standard lists that works well but is certainly not overpowered.
He ran his CSM list that had (from memory here)
2 x DPOT (1 power each, 1 with Telekine Dome, the other with the Telekinesis primaris power).
6 plaguemarines in rhino w/ plasma
6 plaguemarines in rhino w/ melta
2 squads of 3 oblits
10 lesser daemons
Early Game: So, he picks side but I win rolloff to go first. I deploy my havoks, sorcerer with havoks, and plaguemarines in rhino and opt to infiltrate the chosen. He deploys heavily behind cover and out of LOS while at the same time clumping to a very small portion. Objectives are scattered with 2 in the center-ish area and one clearly towards each of our own deployments.
I got my preferred half of Kugath, Epidemius and the squad of 14, and the nurglings. My chosen were close enough to move and pop their melta guns and missile launcher at one of his rhinos, knocking 2 hullpoints off it. I also killed a single bezerker that turn and I believe one CSM. Overall, it looked as if it was going to be a rough game of missing and not being able to kill rhinos. Also cast fireshield on the chosen
His turn saw a lot of shooting, about as effective as my shooting had been. His oblits did kill 2 of my havoks though. His bezerkers than assault my Chosen. Yep, like 10 Bezerkers (after overwatch). The bezerkers hit hard, but a handful of good saves saw only one of the chosen falling to his chainaxes. However, when I roll I kill 3 or 4 (I can’t remember), leaving the assault continuing. He actually lost one or two from fire shield. Huzzah for powers actually being used properly!
Mid Game: My second turn I got everything in (more plaguebearers and the DPON). Kugath moves into position and assaults the oblits while the chosen and Nurglings continue to work on the Bezerkers. Plaguemarines move up to hold an objective. Epidemius’ squad moves in and tries to assault the bezerkers, but doesn’t roll high enough. The Oblits hold on, but I believe I win combat wound-wise. The Zerks finally bit it to the combined assault.
He gets his defiler and one DP in. The defiler walks on and tears up the Chosen with his battle-cannon while the DP vector strikes the Nurglings (now worth 2 KP). All in all, the Chosen are reduced to only the Icon bearer, the Nurglings have 2 left, with 2 and 1 wounds left respectively. The Oblits fall to Kugath during the assault phase.
End Game:The rest of the game saw (I forget which turns this stuff happened) Kugath wiping the CSM squad out, my havoks continuing to suck at life, my Plaguemarines destroying the defiler with a volley of plasma, and my rhino destroying the already damaged rhino with a havok launcher. The occupants were than assaulted by the DPON and Epidmemius’ squad. Unfortunately, his plaguemarines benefited from the tally as well so were rocking a 3+ FNP roll. I dropped a few and they put a wound on the DPoN (remember, everything is wounding on 2 and ignoring armor saves by this point). I foolishly assault a lone oblit with 2 nurglings, he makes his invulns and wipes that unit handily. Kugath comes around and is assaulted by greater daemons and lesser daemons. The DPoT is shot down by a lucky psychic shriek from the sorcerer and the DPoT is assaulted and destroyed by the patiently waiting 7 plaguebearers. The second DP comes in and kills a plaguemarine before dropping to a glide and assaulting the plaguemarines where he is killed. Kugath manages to destroy the lesser daemons. The end of the game saw his last plaguemarines tied up and nearly destroyed by Epedmius and his squad and the greater daemon almost dead. Oh, and one of the rhinos had survived as well.
Overall, a strong win. Although the Nurgle tally list is dependable and very hard to plan against (especially as it is very rarely seen) it has become a bit one dimensional. I have created three deviation methods to inject a bit of multi-dimensional play into my list-
Warp Talons: Stoked about these guys! These guys, with an invuln save and a high T will be OUTSTANDING additions! Plus, add in the ability to make people blind which benefits the rest of the army….oh yeah.
Specialized role units: Havoks (range support) or a dedicated close combat specialist. Even if it is just terminators, chosen, or even cultists. Right now my list is pretty balanced and I think that while upsetting that may hurt my win/loss ratio it would overall make me a better player as I learn to incorporate and balance these specialized units into my army.
Daemon Engines: Forgefiends and Helldrakes will make the long range aspect of my army that much nastier…here’s hoping I can mark them!
Well, thanks for reading
Well, summer for 40k is now over for me and I reflect back on my growth from the summer. A few things of note have happened and I have realized a few things-
-All comers lists play well against many lists, rarely have an achilles heel but can be tough to achieve the clinch and finish the fight with. My artillery, blob, Mono-Khorne, and Mono-Nurgle have all done well but only when I went all in for this army build.
-With the coming of 6th, fliers have emerged as just frankly, gross. Nothing irks me more than terms such as “auto-win” besides players who jump armies and show up with un painted and often unassembled forces just to play “what’s hot” and often win. Then they use those earnings to buy the next hot thing. It actually makes me loathe the idea of a new daemon book as I don’t want parasites like that playing a codex I enjoy…making everyone see daemons as broken. It’s fun to be the underdog. 😀
-I suspect that GW will do a massive errata and unleash flakk missiles to all ML for a nominal points per model….ending the reign of fliers and putting them in their place.
-Allies add a diversity to the game will be fun and should be used. However, I see comp showing up more now to balance out some broken lists. While no one forces people to play army a over army b, a venue could lose tournament showings if the same lists win top every tournament. Currently, few people enjoy playing the necron players at my own FLGS, and I will not play them (with the exception of one or two of them) if I have the option. Too hard? No, as my daemons have never lost a game against Necrons, truth be told. Daemons, who excel in close combat, devastate necrons in close combat and fliers won’t change that (or claim/contest for that matter). No, it’s the player type. Necrons have lots of good combos and are a top tier army, however the player type it attracts at my FLGS is unsavory to me. I may be unsavory to them…all the better.
– Heavy mech lists such as imperial armored company, should it make an appearance as some rumor suppose, in regular 40k will be brutal as you can now no longer stop them from firing. Parking lots are still annoying, but with the addition of allies no army remains unable to deal effectively with them…oh, and now that plasma can destroy the firing vehicle with hullpoints I suspect there will be far fewer las/plas Razorbacks.
-My tournament results this past summer (as well as game experience) I believe has established me as, more or less, a strong player. Before I had struggled for front or even sometimes middle of the pack but now I feel I can safely assume I fall in top 50% or greater. My win/loss/draw ratio has finally broken the 50/50 mark with more wins than losses (heavily padded though with Mono-Nurgle and Mono-Khorne wins).
-Mono-Nurgle will be my army of choice for the time being. With the exalted chariot of Slaanesh coming out, I may find myself picking up some more seekers and daemonettes (goal is 20 seekers, 40 daemonettes, so 3 boxes of seekers, 2 boxes of daemonettes) for a mono-slaanesh force. But that is a long ways off. Hopefully Khorne gets a boost in the coming months, but barring that my mono-nurgle with allies will be the way I go.
-I find myself playing a net list. Which is great and horrible at the same time. In november when I first started my tally list, most saw it as a fluffy list with little chance. December it was 8-2-1 and I was on the top table (which I lost due to a lack of speed). After that, most people saw it as a strong list, but not overpowered it seems. Now, with many changes and allies the tally list has become a “net list”. Should I change my list to avoid being considered a net-lister or drive on? All the locals at my FLGS know I have played this list for about 8 months now, long before 6th. This is a decision that will have to be made in the future.
-I realize that the people I enjoy playing against the most (People such as Thor from Creative Twilight, Shiny Rhino from Bolter and Chainsword, Hippie, Lucas from Creative Twilight, and a few others) I NEVER play in tournaments. It seems tournaments are often 2 or 3 games against people I don’t play against often, and frequently, make me not feel like playing them afterwards. Makes me debate going to less tournaments and saving my 40k time for weekly practice games.
Well, those are my thoughts and reflections of the past few months (and a little ranting…which frankly if you read here you are used to).
Thanks for reading!
So last night I played against Thor from Creative Twilight.
We played the Feast of Blades Mission Stronghold (for access to the missions, click here.
So, for this 2000 (well, 1,999 + 1 so NO double force org) mission, I ran a pretty similar list that I have been running.
He ran this list
So, I won roll-off for first turn. We read the rule, and due to a little confusion we opted to allow ICs to infiltrate/outflank with my Chosen. Thus I deployed my Sorcerer with my Chosen, my Plaguemarines in their Rhino, the Chosen’s Rhino (Not infiltrating as the Sorcerer won’t fit), and my Havocs up on a building to allow maximum line of site.
He deployed dense in a single corner, with his land raider in front and his rhinos and vindicator towards the rear. The scout infiltrated near his flank, denying my infiltrate (damnit, I should not premeasure to where I want to place my models and think out loud BEFORE he infiltrates…). His devs hid in a forest at the table edge. His predator was in the opposite corner and his storm would outflank.
Turn 1 I get Epidemius with 14 Plague Bearers and my DPoN in. I deep strike them off the icons in the rear behind cover. I pop off my missiles at a rhino, high enough to deny cover, and score 3 glances. Instance 1 of Thor hating hull points and me loving them. I fire my havoc launchers to no real effect. During his turn he returned fire with his long range stuff and killed two havocs and the missile launcher for the chosen.
Turn 2 saw my daemon prince swooping, all my other stuff coming in, firing with all my shooting stuff. Put a hull point on the land raider and stripped the stormbolter off of the vindicator with a glance and a pen from the remaining 2 havoc missile launchers. My Rhinos moved forward. My large plaguebearer squad started moving up his flank towards the pred and my sorcerer used his puppetmaster power to take over the landraider and fired the multi-melta at the vindicator…only to miss. During his turn he put 4 wounds on Kugath and 2 on the DPoN. Then he assaulted with 5 terminators and Cassius. The DPoN overwatched with breath of Chaos and wounded with it twice, which resulted in two TH/SS terminators dying. I challenged and he accepted with Cassius. He wins combat due to cassius’ FNP, leaving him with 1 wound left. He also destroyed the Plague Marine’s Rhino with the vindicator exploding it and follow on fire killed 4 of the 7 plague marines.
Turn 3 I moved Kugath up and fired the breath and Necrotic Missiles at the landraider (necrotic missiles was to hit the squad to the immediate rear of the Land Raider). I moved up the Plaguebearers closer to the Predator. The Chosen position themselves for a charge next turn. The plaguemarines fired and killed the vindicator, the Havocs destroying a Rhino (ironically on TOP of the other rhino…leaving a crater ON the rhino…). Kugath attempts to Charge the land raider and misses by 1″. The other plaguebearer squad moves up the pred flank was well, hugging cover. His turn saw the death of Kugath, two more Plague marines (leaving the Champion with fist and the last meltagun left alive). His storm comes in. The Cassius combat continues with cassius taking a wound and missing my DPoN.
Turn 4 my Sorcerer separates from the Chosen to get the Pred to fire into the Storm with a lascannon and autocannon, which strips a hullpoint off. The Chosen attempt to charge by fail by rolling snakeeyes, the Havocs fire frag missiles at the tactical marines and kill one or two. I manage a long assault roll with my plaguebearers and catch the predator off guard, which has yet to move, so I auto-hit. With the subsequent 20 attacks I manage 4 6’s and wreck it (instance 2…). The center assault continues, now the challenge against the TH/SS SGT. He misses and saves my wounds (both for his and my assault phases). The last plague marines fire into the Landraider to no effect. His turn sees the storm boosting to the havocs location and shooting at Epidemius’ squad and killing the Plague Marine aspiring champion as well as killing the last Rhino.
Turn 5 the Sorcerer and the chosen rejoin and assault the terminators. Epidemius’ squad assaults a tactical squad. The remaining Plaguemarine meltagun stuns the Land Raider putting a 3rd hull point on it (ALMOST DEAD!). Epidemius’s assault wipes 4 of 5 marines, the last guy runs. The Chosen squad kills the remaining 2 terminators and loses 1 chosen. The TH/SS SGT again does nothing and saves my wounds. My havocs destroy the storm, killing 2 scouts in the process. During his turn he assaults the center with a 3 man tactical squad and shoots at the havocs, killing the 2 last missile launchers and breaking the champion. He runs away 2 turns later and shoots to no effect. Tactical marines fire to no effect at the last plague marine. As he starts to move the assault, I realize the tally is to 20! Huzzah! The 3 man tactical squad kills a chosen, bringing the chosen to only 3 now. The Chosen handily dispatch the tactical squad and the TH/SS terminator finally kills the DPoN. Combat continues.
Turn 6 Epidemius’ squad finishes off the last tactical marine that ran away. The plague marine assaults 4 tactical marines and dies (HOW! With a 3+ armor and a 3+ FNP against 4 regular guys? Rolled 2 2’s…Damn). The 7 Plaguebearers take a beating down to only 2 and attempt to assault, roll high enough, then I realize I can’t assault things out of LOS… The Center combat becomes the center of attention. During my turn the TH/SS guy puts a wound on the Sorcerer. During his turn I finally kill him, after over 20 successful consecutive invuln saves…growl. I consolidate out.
Turn 7, I move the 2 plaguebearers closer to the objective. I don’t make it within 3″ however and the scouts are still out of LOS. Epidemius’ squad rallies in the back zone to claim it. The 2 plague bearers hold the side section. He holds the opposite side (ironically, he holds my deployment zone area and I hold his). The game decider would be the Land raider. I have a combi melta, but also could use puppetmaster to fire the land raider at the scouts but his Librarian would DTW on a 5+ and I opted for the combi-melta. I manage to pen then explode it! After which I assault the librarian. I do not kill him, and during his assault phase he manages to kill a single chosen. The game ends with me holding 3 zones and holding 1 objective, and with him holding 2 objectives I believe and 2 zones. I score a minor win for the primary and he scores a minor win for the secondary. After modifiers are applied I end with 18 victory points and he has 15, resulting in a barely minor victory, many would call a draw, and surely a Pyrrhic victory at that suffering massive losses, even larger than his.
Overall, the addition of the CSM was a game changer and allowed me to survive the null-zone. In the end, it was probably one of the best games of 40K I have ever played and it was a blast.
Thanks for Reading,