So my Achilles heel is terminators…well, and AV14 but that doesn’t win games and wipe squads. So I set up a game against our local dark angels player (we only have one until the new book comes out. Then everyone will play the damned things). I played him before with a khorne slaanesh list in 5th and had a rocky start but eventually tabled him. Well, turnabout is a bitch. Long and short of it, he had me tabled by the end of the 5th turn, but he really had me “beat” by the end of his second turn.
So, my list at 1750-
5 crushers with icon, rending
16 bloodletters w/ rending
8 hounds w/ rending
8 hounds w/ rending
Soul grinder w/ phlegm
Master of death wing
5 squads of 5 terminators (i think 2 w/ TH/SS, and 3 w/ power fists and heavy shoots weapons). Cyclone launchers on all squads I think.
Mortis dread w/ cyclone launcher and 2 kheres assault cannons (heavy 6, rending, 24″). The Mortis also has sky fire and interceptor if it doesn’t move. Oh…and it’s BS 5.
So I try to go heavy w/ my first wave being both bloodthirsters, the crushers, a squad of hounds, and the soul grinder. Annnnd, I didn’t get it. Oh well, right? Wrong.
I drop my three squads of bloodletters and other squad of hounds. A squad behind the Mortis dread scatters 8″ away from the Mortis dread… And into the open. All of the other squads scatter at let 8 inches as well. This seems to be a recurring thing for my past half dozen or so games…beginning to doubt if my scatter die HAS a hit side to it! His Mortis smokes an entire squad of bloodletters, another is dropped by fire from a shooty squad (4 bolters and an assault cannon) and subsequent assault by the command squad on the remaining two bloodletters, and then the hounds are wiped by another squad. The 16 model unit is reduced to 6 models from fire as well. In that first wave of shooting I made six saves and was about pulling my hair out. Bygones…
My second turn saw my bloodthirsters come in and my soul grinder come in. He dumps fire into the soul grinder from the Mortis doing a glancing his (cover save for the pen made).
He grounds the thirster with bolter fire (which inflicts his first wound). He then assaults with his command squad. The kills two terminators and takes a wound.
My turn I get my crushers and hounds. I assault his squad of power fists with my grinder and remaining bloodletters and the command squad with my second thirster. He challenges with his master of death wing and I accept with my thirster locked in combat already. My charging thirster inflicts three wounds, all saved. The challenged thirster inflicts two, one getting through and doubling out the master of death wing. However, due to the previous thunder hammer wound the thirster strikes at the same time and also dies. Damn divination powers and rerolls to every miss for both player turns!!! The assaulting bloodthirster then falls to the counter attack of the remaining three terminators and the librarian.
The soul grinder kills two of the terminators he assaults and the bloodletters kill one. The remaining two terminators do nothing to the soul grinder.
From there he assaults the crushers with the remnants of the command squad and the hounds with another terminator squad, killing both during the assault after shooting them down to only a few models each. The soul grinder is destroyed by another terminators squad with a chain fist assaulting it.
The next two or three assault phases are him finishing off the last six bloodletters.
Overall, TERRIBLE game, but enlightening. Learned a bunch or CRITICAL lessons.
-If I want to stack a half, ensure I split my troops so they can’t be gunned down without heavy support.
– I can’t rely on volume against TH/SS terminators. They die too slow and kill too fast to allow that. With a new dark angel codex and how much harder it is to kill terminators with AP values to close combat weapons I can only hope that storm shields are not so prevalent. For daemons that means I can go with screamers, flamers, or daemonettes for any kind of volume. Daemonettes are glass cannons and against heavy fire, even bolter fire, they crumble too quickly. Suspect I could drop the second thirster and pick up 275 points of screamers or flamers which would vastly level the playing field against both AV14 and terminators. Have avoided it due to theme but with the impending flood of TH/SS terminators and then in response the re-emergence of null zone to counter the 3++ I need something with some oomph.
– I’ve never come across anything I really thought was over the top until now from forgeworld. But a 200 point dread that can hammer out at BS 5 12 S6 rending shots and two missile launcher shots that has a 13 front armor, base strength of 7 (one higher than normal), and has interceptor and sky fire is a little out of control. Regardless.
– most armies have vehicles which actually vastly REDUCE their firepower. Not so and I noticed my guys suffering much more from it. I need to reduce squad size to make 8×4 so that a single squad cannot get gunned down and reduce my force by 16 models. Yes, the smaller squads are less effective, but I suspect multiple small squads will be more efficient than less large squads as it reduces his ability to focus fire and helps when it comes to over watching.
Regardless, I also made some solid progress on my CSM chosen squad and dark apostle.
After making some fairly simple conversions by adding scrolls of oath to his armor, I made the dark vengeance chosen champ into my dark apostle.
This far, here he is. I did the vast majority of his with no dry brushing as I am trying to ween myself off the technique as a fallback technique.
The use of methods other than dry brushing shows in the cleanliness of the black. It’s not peppered with the dust of other colors.
Here is him and the whole squad. Oh…and me playing with my camera.
So the other night I played against an experienced elder player at my FLGS. We ran a mission called the long haul. Primary mission is objectives, for our game 2. I placed mine, he placed his, he picked side, I opted to let him go first. our game was 1750 pts.
2 thirsters w/ unholy might, one with blessings
5 crushers with icon and rending
2 x 8 bloodletters
16 bloodletters w/ icon and rending
2×8 hounds w/ rending
Soul grinder with phlegm
From what I remember, he ran-
The scorpion Phoenix lord
Some tau crisis HQ with 2+ armor and 2 shield drones
2 x 5 pathfinders
10 fire warriors in devil fish
3 D cannons
A crisis suit with bunch of melta guns
Aegis defense line with quad gun
So he set up his pathfinders and the fire warriors behind the defense line about mid way up his deployment zone. He then infiltrated the d-cannons, the Phoenix lord, Eldrad, and the tau HQ making for a big slow and purposeful barrage death star. he kept his fire warriors in their transport and put that and the hammerhead to one flank.
I opted to go heavy. I elected to go heavy with the crushers, one squad of hounds, the soul grinder, and both bloodthirsters. I made my preferred half and was ballsy and deep struck my stuff in his deployment, mostly behind his defense line. Mis-happed with the grinder which went into strategic reserves. Everything scattered at least 8 inches (my scatter die has hated me my last like 6 or 7 games!). All in all, I ended up with a lot of pressure on his flank. His first turn of shooting resulted in one wound on each thirster and both still flying.
Overall, because I forgot to take pictures, I will hit the highlights. It was a great game and bloody. My flank attack finished off the pathfinders, and fire dragons, the hounds were really my mvps of this game killing the hammerhead, fire warriors, and holding up against the Phoenix lord for a few turns. Killing his troops early and leaving him in the open while I gutted his soft position helped immensely. From then on he was fighting for a tie on primary. I dropped in and took my own objective with troops in cover, and held them there.
I have run afoul of this annoying d-cannon slow and purposeful bit before. Flanking it with 2+/4++ saves with fortune is equally obnoxious especially when he has fortune and all T7 against shooting. I won’t lie, I imagine that Eldar powers will lose fortune in their new book when it comes it someday…and there will be lots of tears. Until then, the lack of AP2 continues to plague me. A single dude with a 2+ should not be able to handle a full squad of crushers and hounds and not take a single wound. Regardless, I pulled a solid win, by killing more elites, having more stuff in his deployment, and holding more objectives. Fun game, but same problems arise as always.
Thanks for reading,
So after what has seemed like a long time I finally broke out of my rut and got back to what I like most about 40k…the sheer carnage!
So, I played at my FLGS today with a 2000 point generally mono khorne army. We played at 2000 point so I could really put it to the test.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god
5 crushers w/ instrument, icon, and rending
16 bloodletters w/ icon, instrument, and rending
8 hounds w/ rending
8 hounds w/ rending
Soul grinder w/ phlegm
Exalted chariot of slaanesh
He ran, from what I remember-
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ rhino
Land raider crusader
We rolled up a book mission, got crusader (basic objective mission with each objective worth 3 battle points) and we rolled up 3 objectives.
I won roll off for first turn and gave it to him.
He deployed with the terminators in the land raider, combat squads in razorbacks and missile launchers in the rear. He spread out as much as he could to interfere with my deep strikes. Opting to go heavy, I chose (and got) both blood thirsters, both crusher squads, the chariot, and the soul grinder. They came in heavy on his left flank, ran some to spread out, and the grinder popped off his maw cannon and destroyed the vindicator.
Turn two he manages to gun down the first bloodthirster and between shooting and assaulting with the terminators killed the small squad of crushers. I had my hounds (both squads) come in, destroyed his rhino with my thirster and immobilized the predator and destroyed one of the thee las cannons. The crushers and the chariot destroyed his left flank razorback. the occupants of the razorback were pinned and the occupants of the rhino fled.
Turn three he dumped a huge amount of fire into thirster, putting two wounds on him. THe soul grinder takes another hull point, bringing it to 2 now. The terminators re-embarked. My soul grinder, still in base to base with the pred finished off the predator. My turn the two small squads of bloodletters came in. The soul grinder moved and assaulted the dread, stripping two hull points off it. The crushers and chariot wipe out the squad that fell out of the razorback. The thirster managed to put a hull point on the land raider. The squad of hounds assaulted the full tac squad, the one that had fled due to two or three deaths in the explosion of their transport. They killed one and lost none. Overall, a good turn.
Turn four saw his storm talon come in. The last thirster was gunned down, the soul grinder destroyed by the hammernators. The tac squad stayed in combat against the hounds. My turn saw the second squad of hounds assaulting into the fray of the other hound squad, the crushers, a small bloodletters squad, and the chariot moving around to and failing to assault his missile launcher squad in the rear, and the large squad now in. The large squad of bloodletters held an objective and the second small squad as well.
Turn 5 saw him killing a few bloodletters from shooting, the hounds finally finishing off his tac squad and assaulting another with no significant results, the chariot killing the missile launcher squad. We ended after 5 turns. Overall, it was bloody with me winning 7-1 battle points. I had a blast, and I think he did as well.
So now I know. Yes, the loss of initiative hurt me, the increased and variable assault distance gave me a huge advantage as did the hull point system. Hounds, with 3 S5 attacks each on the charge can be pretty nasty and really useful for clogging up the enemy.
However, I need a better way to deal with terminators. With dark angels being released soon and as many suits of terminator armor already fielded often, I need a better response. Bulk attacks might work, but I need a strong unit to force the invuln saves. For now, I will simply hope that they modify the bloodletters an khorne models in the next update and rock on with the same tactics I use.
Win or lose, I have confirmed that mono khorne is still as viable as always, and while not against a top-tier army, my opponent is a strong opponent who knows ultramarines very well and has played them for years. I am happy that the list hasn’t changed too much from 5th. I also find myself re-energized to paint and field my khorne stuff that hasn’t gotten a lot of love in the past few months in lieu of my Nurgle stuff.
Thanks for reading,
Well, summer for 40k is now over for me and I reflect back on my growth from the summer. A few things of note have happened and I have realized a few things-
-All comers lists play well against many lists, rarely have an achilles heel but can be tough to achieve the clinch and finish the fight with. My artillery, blob, Mono-Khorne, and Mono-Nurgle have all done well but only when I went all in for this army build.
-With the coming of 6th, fliers have emerged as just frankly, gross. Nothing irks me more than terms such as “auto-win” besides players who jump armies and show up with un painted and often unassembled forces just to play “what’s hot” and often win. Then they use those earnings to buy the next hot thing. It actually makes me loathe the idea of a new daemon book as I don’t want parasites like that playing a codex I enjoy…making everyone see daemons as broken. It’s fun to be the underdog. 😀
-I suspect that GW will do a massive errata and unleash flakk missiles to all ML for a nominal points per model….ending the reign of fliers and putting them in their place.
-Allies add a diversity to the game will be fun and should be used. However, I see comp showing up more now to balance out some broken lists. While no one forces people to play army a over army b, a venue could lose tournament showings if the same lists win top every tournament. Currently, few people enjoy playing the necron players at my own FLGS, and I will not play them (with the exception of one or two of them) if I have the option. Too hard? No, as my daemons have never lost a game against Necrons, truth be told. Daemons, who excel in close combat, devastate necrons in close combat and fliers won’t change that (or claim/contest for that matter). No, it’s the player type. Necrons have lots of good combos and are a top tier army, however the player type it attracts at my FLGS is unsavory to me. I may be unsavory to them…all the better.
– Heavy mech lists such as imperial armored company, should it make an appearance as some rumor suppose, in regular 40k will be brutal as you can now no longer stop them from firing. Parking lots are still annoying, but with the addition of allies no army remains unable to deal effectively with them…oh, and now that plasma can destroy the firing vehicle with hullpoints I suspect there will be far fewer las/plas Razorbacks.
-My tournament results this past summer (as well as game experience) I believe has established me as, more or less, a strong player. Before I had struggled for front or even sometimes middle of the pack but now I feel I can safely assume I fall in top 50% or greater. My win/loss/draw ratio has finally broken the 50/50 mark with more wins than losses (heavily padded though with Mono-Nurgle and Mono-Khorne wins).
-Mono-Nurgle will be my army of choice for the time being. With the exalted chariot of Slaanesh coming out, I may find myself picking up some more seekers and daemonettes (goal is 20 seekers, 40 daemonettes, so 3 boxes of seekers, 2 boxes of daemonettes) for a mono-slaanesh force. But that is a long ways off. Hopefully Khorne gets a boost in the coming months, but barring that my mono-nurgle with allies will be the way I go.
-I find myself playing a net list. Which is great and horrible at the same time. In november when I first started my tally list, most saw it as a fluffy list with little chance. December it was 8-2-1 and I was on the top table (which I lost due to a lack of speed). After that, most people saw it as a strong list, but not overpowered it seems. Now, with many changes and allies the tally list has become a “net list”. Should I change my list to avoid being considered a net-lister or drive on? All the locals at my FLGS know I have played this list for about 8 months now, long before 6th. This is a decision that will have to be made in the future.
-I realize that the people I enjoy playing against the most (People such as Thor from Creative Twilight, Shiny Rhino from Bolter and Chainsword, Hippie, Lucas from Creative Twilight, and a few others) I NEVER play in tournaments. It seems tournaments are often 2 or 3 games against people I don’t play against often, and frequently, make me not feel like playing them afterwards. Makes me debate going to less tournaments and saving my 40k time for weekly practice games.
Well, those are my thoughts and reflections of the past few months (and a little ranting…which frankly if you read here you are used to).
Thanks for reading!
So, tired of running those “balanced” lists designed to win which I have never had success with, I put together an all-offense Khorne force.
Bloodthirsters x 2
2 Squads of Crushers (4 crushers in one, 5 in the other, both had all upgrades for wound abuse)
2 Squads of Bloodletters (Squad of 16 and squad of 8. Squad of 16 has icon)
2 squads of Hounds (8 each, both with rending on one model)
Daemon Prince of Khorne
The Disciples of Twilight
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
7 or 8 lesser daemons (can’t remember exactly)
2 squads of 5 plague marines in rhinos (1 with 2 meltas, 1 with 2 plasmaguns)
1 squad of 10 Khorne Bezerkers in rhino (with 2 plasma pistols)
3 squads of 2 obliterators
So, think that’s everything he had. Overall, looked to be a fun game, but I went into it with little expectation of winning against an army that looked like it was gonna pack an whollop at a distance. We opted to play Safeguard which can be found on Creative Twilight here.
He opted to go first, placing his objective in the ruins in the corner. I opted to deepstrike heavy and threaten all of his vehicles right off the bat. I got my preferred half of both thirsters, both squads of crushers, and the DPoK (which had deathstrike).
I dropped in along the center line.
I fired at the rhino with my DPoK (missed with my BS 5….sigh, never taking THAT again). Ran everyone else.
Top of 2 saw all of his stuff come in from reserve…all of it. His left side dread (the one near the ruins) rolled a “6” and opted to charge the bloodthirster…silly dreadnought. His lesser daemons also assaulted the bloodthirster (which had been reduced to a single wound from shooting), while shooting had also done 3 wounds to the DPoK and his greater daemon dropped in to finish him off. He also put a few wounds on the crushers. My turn two saw the soul grinder, both squads of bloodletters, and one squad of hounds. All dropped on the side of the crushers, hoping that the thirsters could fend off and hold the right flank. He assaults the thirster which killed the dread, but was finished off by the lesser daemons. During my turn 2 I assault the daemon prince of Nurgle (DPoN) and put 2 or 3 wounds on him while also assaulting his right flank oblits with my crushers and trying to hurt the rhino with the bezerkers in it and failing miserably. My Daemon prince of Khorne also died turn 2 to his greater daemon.
His turn 3, his other dread goes insane and attacks my crushers who get a lucky rend off and kill the dread. The oblits fire some more, and he assaults the bloodthirster with his other daemon prince and the lesser daemons. To save time of mentioning this, this combat runs on until the end of turn 4, resulting in the thirster (and some hounds) killing off the daemon princes and the lesser daemons, plus two oblits that jump into the fray. His greater daemon also assaults my bloodletters and kills 2, taking 3 wounds himself. Making his fearless save, this combat goes on during my assault phase with little to show from it. My turn three saw me chasing down and assaulting the bezerker rhino, stunning it and immoblizing it.
Turn 4 saw the bezerkers handily turning the tides of the battle against the bloodletters where they all died. With the DPoN dead (bottom of 3 I think), he commits his oblits which allows me to pick up extra wounds in the assault phase (ID the oblits at S8). This allowed me to stick another wound to the DPoT. The thirster took his first wound. During my turn 4 I assaulted the rhino with the soul grinder destroying it, the bezerkers with the crushers killing them, the greater daemon with my bloodletters killing it, and sending my hounds into the thirster fight. Oh, and the 4 unit squad of crushers were still heading across the table to get into some action! (Which they never saw…)
Oh, and somewhere in here my second squad of hounds shows up (turn 4 I believe). You can see them in the picture of the crusher above as to where they landed.
Turn 5 fires at the hounds some, but I finally manage to kill the DPoT (which turned a hound to a spawn!). I kill the spawn as well, winning combat by 4 which ends up killing the last of the lesser daemons. He contests my objective with a rhino with plaguemarines which shoot up my squad of bloodletters in cover (killing 2). I square off and assault with my bloodletters during my turn to destroy the rhino, as well as surrounding the far rhino on his objective with hounds hoping for a wrecked result. The thirster assaults the last 2 oblits. All assaults succeded, exploding the bloodletters rhino, wrecking the hounds rhino (killing the occupants), and the thirster finished off the oblits.
We get a turn 6, with him having only the plague marines. They assault the remaining 5 bloodletters, killing 2. On my turn, the bloodcrushers assault, killing the rest of the plague marines.
Overall, a great game and a reminder as to why I love 40K and daemons. One of the funnest games I’ve played in a long time and hope to run this list again!
Thanks for reading, off to bed!