So, we have all done table setup. HOWEVER, how many of us do it right? Not many. I know I didn’t. Not even close. I set up a game with a friend a month or so ago and we rolled dead on even and had a TON of terrain. We RAN OUT of matching terrain. Plus…I’ve seen lots of pics of tourneys. We don’t set up terrain right. Period. You can argue all you want, but most of us are vets from 5th and we rock the 25%-ish theory when in reality it is a WHOLE LOT closer to 50%. HOWEVER…You should have 6D3 pieces of major terrain. Minor terrain should be 1-3 PER major piece of terrain. But…is more terrain what we need? No. Terrain should not just hamper a linear assault across the board. Wars wash over terrain like water, with hills, cities, and valleys shaping the movement of troops like it would water. This is how it REALLY happens. So…how can we build a better table to lead to, what I believe, an even more awesome experience!
By the way…this is what a strong roll looks like- 15 pieces. So THIS is possible and sort of plausible because we have seen 6 dice rolled before with three 5’s and 6’s and three 3’s and 4’s.
1) Elevation. Elevation exists. Find me a battlefield that is flat. It doesn’t happen. Things like raptors on flat ground aren’t that good… if you add some significant elevation changes and PRESTO! They are meaningful. Check out this table:
OKAY, OKAY! This IS a games day table. However, check it out. Lots of elevation changes. Does this mean that jump infantry is needed? No. BUT, it does mean that that Wave serpent army jumping around is gonna take a LOT of dangerous terrain checks JUST TO MOVE because a) it has lots of terrain and b) he can’t just be up high and see. This brings me to my next point…
2) Line of sight. With 2″ hills, ruins, and the occasional LOS blocking thing, fliers are brutal and skimmers are just disgusting. When drawing LOS is as simple as getting on top of a hill and then you are SOL, guess what…that’s what people will do. Check out the table. NOW…draw a line across the table. From one edge to another. Can you find a straight shot? I couldn’t. This changes the dynamics of combat. 6th hit assault armies, but buffed them again with increased terrain AND mysterious forests and rivers. Suddenly a) you gotta work to see the enemies entire army with your retardedly powerful gunline and b) I wouldn’t suggest hanging out in terrain JUST to get those estra hits cuz he doesn’t have assault grenades or try to deny an assault because of assaulting through difficult terrain. By not setting up terrain, we are empowering those cheezy metas that we all hate. The quad riptide gunline. Guess what…he aint that powerful when he has to always try to get a shot so he is always moving. When it is open terrain he can shoot then run away and never move TOWARDS the enemy. You make it with lots of LOS blocking stuff, he may only be able to get a shot from a certain spot.
3) Terrain as a shaping force: Check this out ——————————————————————–>
Basically, it’s a few hills…not even that much terrain (yes, I know it’s being worked on right now…). HOWEVER, this terrain shapes the battle. Terrain such as this allows for creation of choke points (because wars are not fought on random terrain!). Things that both sides can use for their advantage. Yes, the IG artillery player can hide beyond the canyon walls and ruin the day of enemies, but what happens when they flank the army? What happens when they DO clear that choke point and break the IG artillery! Now they are screwed. 😛
So, that’s all I will rant about this subject. I only brought this up after having played several games and realized that a) the terrain did little to nothing. Cover was minimal. I could START in cover, but there were HUGE chunks of area for infantry to die in. In total, about 25-30% of the table. About 1-2 small to medium pieces per 2×2 square. That’s some pretty weak rolls. 😛 I do it. Many of us are guilty of this. Sometimes it’s a theme thing (we are out of lava terrain…screw it, that’s enough). Many times, it’s a habit thing. I placed all the lava pieces available and much of the table was covered. Small pieces that did little, but I said “WOW, that’s too much terrain”…and I removed some. Often, we try to make things symmetrical and leave big open gaps.
I think a good test is this. If you can pick a spot in a deployment zone from 6″ up and see everything, even if it is in cover, then your terrain placement is not good. There is a reason why both players set up terrain. That is to ensure that the table IS balanced. Because tables set up with nothing really taller than that 2” hill with maybe two of them stacked is grossly in favor of gunline armies. It just is. Why oh why would we walk across no-mans-land into gunfire? It’s silly. Same time, why would a gunline player want a trail of terrain and LOS blocking stuff all the way up to them. It’s not my FLGS only, either! For example, some other examples:
That enough? Three different sites, similar results. Limited LOS blocking stuff. Almost zero terrain elevation, none of which could not be simply walked over or at an almost zero impact driven around. Look at the themes on the table. Necrons. Eldar. Fliers with 100% visibiltiy! What IS NOT present? Assault forces (yes, I know, it’s only 4 armies, not a good sampling…I get it!). However, let’s take a good look at our OWN FLGS and say “Hey, the book says do it this way, let’s try it”. Then, let’s not settle for the same old terrain. Do hills on hills! Ruins on hills. Treat that river as impassible except for bridges and ford sites. Use mysterious stuff. Think about the question – Can I get online and walk across to his online army and then beat the crap out of each other? If yes, then perhaps you could think about a different setup. This is NO WAY an attack on players setting up stuff like this…I DO! But, rather an idea to broaden our gaming experiences and make our terrain tables look like battlefields…not tables.
Thanks for reading,
Trying out Daemons Still
So I am still trying out the new daemons and I ran against a Tau player I have played against previously. Previously, I had won most of our games by virtue of the Tau codex being a fairly “meh” book. Long story short, even with amazing luck on the Warpstorm table, I got trounced pretty damn hard. I am trying to like the new book as some other players who play daemons have had great success with it…I just refuse to purchase a ton of new models for my army. 😛
Onto the nuts and bolts…
herald of tzeentch with ML2, Grimoire, and disc
Herald of Nurgle with FNP
Herald of Khorne with Greater Ether Blade and Warp Breath
Masque of Slaanesh
Sorcerer of Tzeentch with Force Axe, LC, ML3, MoT, Sigil of Darkness, Spell Familiar
10 CSM w/ 2 Meltas in Rhino
Soulgrinder of Nurgle with Phlegm and MoN
Predator w/ AC, HB, Havoc Launcher
He ran Some Tau commander with Cyclic Ion Rifle
2×3 Crisis suits w/ Melta/Plasma (whatever the Tau call it)
So….here is some issues with MY list.
Rhino= Capacity of 10. 10 CSM. 1 Sorcerer. Yeah, didn’t think of this when I built the list. Footslogging 10 man CSM unit with rolling cover. D’OH!
Dakka preds are great in my CSM force with a plethora of anti-tank (havocs, oblits, melta and plasma out the wazoo). The Dakka Preds work well against the infantry blobs but the tri las would have been better and the dakka pred was fundamentally a bad a idea for this list.
Masque=Great. Masque without icon support= Masque that scatters 11 inches behind the enemy and has no cover to hide behind. Masque with an ADL to hunker down behind would be much handier.
List was 1500
So, long story short the T3 bloodletter never made it there. Hell, the FIRST T3 squad died, then I rolled 12 on the warpstorm table, got 11 more, deepstruck FORWARD of where the original squad was, then THEY got gunned down. So bloodletters are an interesting choice. Find it odd that they are more expensive than the other troops with the T3, 5++, 1 attack base, and lack of anyway to get into combat quickly. They are about on par with the other troops. The plaguebearers suffered an immeasurable amount of fire and just hunkered down. In cover as objective squatters the FNP herald was not really necessary and the 70 points could have been saved or used elsewhere. The Screamers with a herald was great. I have tried pink horrors and I found them terrible. Thus I traded my horrors for some flamers a friend had as a surplus. I hope to build an anti-tank jet-bike squad to zip around with and misfortune the bejesus out of things. Woohoo. They are a keeper. They tore through a Hammerhead then took out 3 of the 6 tau firewarriors in the small squad, then killed 10 of the 12 firewarriors from another squad. They ARE a keeper. The Herald of Khorne is nice, but getting there is again an issue. The soul grinder is nice, but pricey with the current loadout. I attempted to assault with him but he got whacked with a meltashot to the face on overwatch.
So, I liked the CSM compliment. The power armor and dedicated transports, even with me having to footslog them 6″ at a time. The predator earned back it’s paltry 107 points, however a tri-las predator would have served better to simply punch through the hammerheads. Oblits would also be an impressive addition, especially in conjunction with the grimoire for a 2++. After playing the daemons I feel I will gradually allow my CSMs to emerge as more and more of a dominant force in my armies as they become more painted.
Well, thanks for reading,
So after what has seemed like a long time I finally broke out of my rut and got back to what I like most about 40k…the sheer carnage!
So, I played at my FLGS today with a 2000 point generally mono khorne army. We played at 2000 point so I could really put it to the test.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god
5 crushers w/ instrument, icon, and rending
16 bloodletters w/ icon, instrument, and rending
8 hounds w/ rending
8 hounds w/ rending
Soul grinder w/ phlegm
Exalted chariot of slaanesh
He ran, from what I remember-
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ rhino
Land raider crusader
We rolled up a book mission, got crusader (basic objective mission with each objective worth 3 battle points) and we rolled up 3 objectives.
I won roll off for first turn and gave it to him.
He deployed with the terminators in the land raider, combat squads in razorbacks and missile launchers in the rear. He spread out as much as he could to interfere with my deep strikes. Opting to go heavy, I chose (and got) both blood thirsters, both crusher squads, the chariot, and the soul grinder. They came in heavy on his left flank, ran some to spread out, and the grinder popped off his maw cannon and destroyed the vindicator.
Turn two he manages to gun down the first bloodthirster and between shooting and assaulting with the terminators killed the small squad of crushers. I had my hounds (both squads) come in, destroyed his rhino with my thirster and immobilized the predator and destroyed one of the thee las cannons. The crushers and the chariot destroyed his left flank razorback. the occupants of the razorback were pinned and the occupants of the rhino fled.
Turn three he dumped a huge amount of fire into thirster, putting two wounds on him. THe soul grinder takes another hull point, bringing it to 2 now. The terminators re-embarked. My soul grinder, still in base to base with the pred finished off the predator. My turn the two small squads of bloodletters came in. The soul grinder moved and assaulted the dread, stripping two hull points off it. The crushers and chariot wipe out the squad that fell out of the razorback. The thirster managed to put a hull point on the land raider. The squad of hounds assaulted the full tac squad, the one that had fled due to two or three deaths in the explosion of their transport. They killed one and lost none. Overall, a good turn.
Turn four saw his storm talon come in. The last thirster was gunned down, the soul grinder destroyed by the hammernators. The tac squad stayed in combat against the hounds. My turn saw the second squad of hounds assaulting into the fray of the other hound squad, the crushers, a small bloodletters squad, and the chariot moving around to and failing to assault his missile launcher squad in the rear, and the large squad now in. The large squad of bloodletters held an objective and the second small squad as well.
Turn 5 saw him killing a few bloodletters from shooting, the hounds finally finishing off his tac squad and assaulting another with no significant results, the chariot killing the missile launcher squad. We ended after 5 turns. Overall, it was bloody with me winning 7-1 battle points. I had a blast, and I think he did as well.
So now I know. Yes, the loss of initiative hurt me, the increased and variable assault distance gave me a huge advantage as did the hull point system. Hounds, with 3 S5 attacks each on the charge can be pretty nasty and really useful for clogging up the enemy.
However, I need a better way to deal with terminators. With dark angels being released soon and as many suits of terminator armor already fielded often, I need a better response. Bulk attacks might work, but I need a strong unit to force the invuln saves. For now, I will simply hope that they modify the bloodletters an khorne models in the next update and rock on with the same tactics I use.
Win or lose, I have confirmed that mono khorne is still as viable as always, and while not against a top-tier army, my opponent is a strong opponent who knows ultramarines very well and has played them for years. I am happy that the list hasn’t changed too much from 5th. I also find myself re-energized to paint and field my khorne stuff that hasn’t gotten a lot of love in the past few months in lieu of my Nurgle stuff.
Thanks for reading,
So I finally got a chance to run my 1850 test list. I think I will only get a single shot at testing before the standish standoff, so I had to make it count. So I ran it against another Mono-Nurgle CSM force.
GUO w/ breath
7 plague bearers
7 plague bearers
14 plague bearers w/ Icon
14 cultists w/ autoguns and MoN
7 Warp talons w/ MoN (Champ with melta bombs) and Veterans of long war
7 Havocs w/ Vets of Long War, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers with Flakk Missiles
DPoN w/ Wings, Armor, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, and Breath of Chaos
Lord on Bike w/ Dimensional Key, Brand of Skalanthrax, Black Mace, MoN, Sigil of Corruption (that’s right, lotsa points)
20 cultists w/ MoN
20 cultists w/ MoN
10 CSM w/ MoN
7 CSM w/ MoN
Vindicator w/ siege shield
7 Bikers w/ MoN
5 Raptors w/ MoN
ADL w/ quad gun
We played the creative twilight game vengeance. He went first, I had my Havocs w/ Typhus and cultists on the table. Due to a poor deployment choice, my havocs were a weeee bit too close to the vindicator and it cost me a las cannon and a missile launcher turn one. Other than that he simply maneuvered some. My turn I then fired the havocs at the vindicator causing it to explode with my lascannon. My GUO and Epidemius with the 14 plaguebearers dropped in.
He, in his turn 2, got his raptors in and shot up my havocs and ended up killing two more. The bikers assaulted the GUO and would end up killing him after 3 assault phases in a challenge between the lord and the GUO. The GUO did put two wounds on him before he died. My turn 2 my talons came in and failed to blind the bikers (passed their I test). All my daemons would come in as well.
Now, the table was divided for most of the rest of the game:
Left side would be for three full turns the bikers, the talons, and the GUO. By the end of the 3rd turn, the bikers would have emerged from both assaults with only 2 wounds on the lord and 3 less bikers.
The right side saw my plaguebearers (all 3 squads) and DPoN sweeping through and destroying the smaller squad of CSM and both cultist squads.
Typhus and the havocs killed off the raptors in an assault.
He assaults a squad of 7 plaguebearers with his bikers on turn 4. The assault stagnates, allowing another squad to assault, killing off the rest as the tally is now to 20+.
This left him having only completely killed the talons and the GUO. In a last effort, he empties his land raider and shoots down the now swooping DPoN (well, it had 2 wounds left, and wounds with a melta gun and a bolt pistol…which I failed both saves for). Those CSM were dealt with by Typhus and a squad of 6 plague bearers. The Havoc champ attempts to use his powerfist to deal with the land raider but fails to do anything more than strip a single hullpoint off of it. The game ends with him having a landraider on the table.
I won with 11 kill points to his 5 (the DPoN was worth 3 by this point), controlling all 4 objectives, and controlling 3 table quarters to his 0. I also had a single unit left alive worth 3 or more KP (a Plaguebearer unit) meaning I won 31-0.
Overall, a great game, a good showing of Nurgle. He seemed to be pretty inexperienced and had never faced a tally list before. I gave him some pointers and he was pretty excited overall to have learned some new nifty tactics for Nurgle. I feel my Nurgle list is ready for the Standoff and will make a strong showing there. It’s no tournament winning list, but perhaps it will be good enough to get me a good place like 4th or 5th. Perhaps if the ruinous powers be with me I can walk away with peoples choice, though I won’t get my hopes up.
i have to finish painting. I feel I have made some good progress, but I have to finish my army, finish my display tray, and finish my competition models…so yeah, I gots some serious work to do.
Either way, I am really stoked for the event and generally can’t wait!
Thanks for reading,