Terminators. You love them if you play them, you hate them if you play against them. Alas, they used to be a simple thing to deal with in 5th edition for daemons of Khorne. A hell blade would make short work, and an 80-128 point (5-8 bloodletter squad) would handle a squad of non-THSS terminators in a single round.
Fast forward to now. Now there is no I bump from furious charge, no Khorne weapons are AP2, no transports exist to prevent your units from being whittled down prior to the assault, and there are no units of equivalent hardiness (ie- no 2+ saves and very few 3+ saves in the whole codex). Combine that with no long ranged fire support capabilities and it makes it rather tough to handle.
So how do I handle it?
Option a is to utilize flamers and screamers. Both are tzeentch and piss poor in close combat. With their WS 2, the flamers are currently brutal in close combat but as they continue to be very strong people are learning ways to work around them to include assaulting them with a small unit then a larger unit, hammernators still make short work of them, and now dirge casters. The screamers are a great option against elite troop choices but against blobs they simply lack the wounds. To make matters worse, if rumors are true a new daemon codex is in the making and this means that those two wounders are gonna likely be writing on the wall for the fact that daemons may lose universal eternal warrior. Finally…they aren’t my style and if I use them it is in very small numbers, but they don’t match the cannon of my army.
So what now? Chariots maybe? Glass cannons and a welcome addition to my forces but can’t be relied on.
So… To kill those terminators and crack that land raider, what do I use in a mono-Khorne force?
Well, my first idea was the skull taker in Juggernaut. 3 wounds, 5 toughness, I5, S5 rends on 4+ against anything with wounds, 6+ against armor. Rending also causes instant death. Take him and a normal herald in the same squad to avoid the skull taker getting bogged down in a challenge.
However….here is my other plan. Flashy, fun, ultra versatile, offers long range firepower, transport capabilities, and durability.
Mutilators with mark of khorne with lord of khorne with the axe of blinding fury. With a combo bolter, the two weigh in at 355 points and have between 20-26 attacks on the charge. They can rip land raiders to pieces, or butcher terminators. Either way, they pack a punch. In a land raider I can ensure they get to their target. Yeah, the land raider can be cracked open, but that means less high strength shots going at my bloodthirster and crushers.
Yeah, so this is the route I am thinking I will go down currently.
Aside from this, have debated making a chariot of khorne using the new nifty warhammer model
As the chariot moves like infantry anyway,I think it’s fitting.
Well, thanks for reading,
So they’re of the most underused units in the daemon codex. Flesh hounds of khorne. At the stats of an assault marine for almost the same price (15 points) and a 5+ invulnerable save and next to no upgrades, they have often been set aside for notably better options for fast attacking daemons such as screamers and seekers. But with flesh hounds coming in cheaper, the new move through cover rules, and the higher strength they have their niche to fill.
So for 120 points you can get 8 hounds, 130 points gets you rending on one of them. On the charge they have 24 S5 attacks. Against marines that’s 12 hits, 8 wounds, and a few dead marines. (2 or 3). Yup, not that good seeing the marines will then (assuming 10 marines) smack the dogs 12 times, get 6 hits, 3 wounds, and 2 dead dogs.
But with anything, the dogs fill a niche. They fill that role of cracking transports and mauling weaker troops. Mainly cracking rear AV 10 vehicles. Due to their base size, they aren’t bad at cracking rhinos and killing everyone inside as they can’t get out. With 24 attacks, 16 hits at S5 against rear AV 10, that’s 5 glances or better. Against those pesky rear AV 11 vehicles, that is 2-3 glances.
They also work to move fast to hit those units in the back field. With move through cover, fleet, and beasts they are pretty quick movers.
Lastly, they are generally at the bottom of the ladder as far as priority. Due to no power weapons and low threat to infantry, they are often overlooked in lieu of shooting things like the bloodthirster.
So at the end of the day, are they the best? No. However, when it comes to a reliable way to crack that rhino, razorback, or vindicator then they are a solid option. Screamers will get gunned down due to their higher priority and lower numbers as well as having a terrible WS and low model count, seekers are lower strength and toughness, have the ability to pen more but cannot destroy those rear AV 10 quite as well as the hounds.
Thanks for reading,
So after what has seemed like a long time I finally broke out of my rut and got back to what I like most about 40k…the sheer carnage!
So, I played at my FLGS today with a 2000 point generally mono khorne army. We played at 2000 point so I could really put it to the test.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god.
Bloodthirster w/ unholy might and blessing of the blood god
5 crushers w/ instrument, icon, and rending
16 bloodletters w/ icon, instrument, and rending
8 hounds w/ rending
8 hounds w/ rending
Soul grinder w/ phlegm
Exalted chariot of slaanesh
He ran, from what I remember-
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ razorback
10 tac marines w/ missile launcher and plasma gun w/ rhino
Land raider crusader
We rolled up a book mission, got crusader (basic objective mission with each objective worth 3 battle points) and we rolled up 3 objectives.
I won roll off for first turn and gave it to him.
He deployed with the terminators in the land raider, combat squads in razorbacks and missile launchers in the rear. He spread out as much as he could to interfere with my deep strikes. Opting to go heavy, I chose (and got) both blood thirsters, both crusher squads, the chariot, and the soul grinder. They came in heavy on his left flank, ran some to spread out, and the grinder popped off his maw cannon and destroyed the vindicator.
Turn two he manages to gun down the first bloodthirster and between shooting and assaulting with the terminators killed the small squad of crushers. I had my hounds (both squads) come in, destroyed his rhino with my thirster and immobilized the predator and destroyed one of the thee las cannons. The crushers and the chariot destroyed his left flank razorback. the occupants of the razorback were pinned and the occupants of the rhino fled.
Turn three he dumped a huge amount of fire into thirster, putting two wounds on him. THe soul grinder takes another hull point, bringing it to 2 now. The terminators re-embarked. My soul grinder, still in base to base with the pred finished off the predator. My turn the two small squads of bloodletters came in. The soul grinder moved and assaulted the dread, stripping two hull points off it. The crushers and chariot wipe out the squad that fell out of the razorback. The thirster managed to put a hull point on the land raider. The squad of hounds assaulted the full tac squad, the one that had fled due to two or three deaths in the explosion of their transport. They killed one and lost none. Overall, a good turn.
Turn four saw his storm talon come in. The last thirster was gunned down, the soul grinder destroyed by the hammernators. The tac squad stayed in combat against the hounds. My turn saw the second squad of hounds assaulting into the fray of the other hound squad, the crushers, a small bloodletters squad, and the chariot moving around to and failing to assault his missile launcher squad in the rear, and the large squad now in. The large squad of bloodletters held an objective and the second small squad as well.
Turn 5 saw him killing a few bloodletters from shooting, the hounds finally finishing off his tac squad and assaulting another with no significant results, the chariot killing the missile launcher squad. We ended after 5 turns. Overall, it was bloody with me winning 7-1 battle points. I had a blast, and I think he did as well.
So now I know. Yes, the loss of initiative hurt me, the increased and variable assault distance gave me a huge advantage as did the hull point system. Hounds, with 3 S5 attacks each on the charge can be pretty nasty and really useful for clogging up the enemy.
However, I need a better way to deal with terminators. With dark angels being released soon and as many suits of terminator armor already fielded often, I need a better response. Bulk attacks might work, but I need a strong unit to force the invuln saves. For now, I will simply hope that they modify the bloodletters an khorne models in the next update and rock on with the same tactics I use.
Win or lose, I have confirmed that mono khorne is still as viable as always, and while not against a top-tier army, my opponent is a strong opponent who knows ultramarines very well and has played them for years. I am happy that the list hasn’t changed too much from 5th. I also find myself re-energized to paint and field my khorne stuff that hasn’t gotten a lot of love in the past few months in lieu of my Nurgle stuff.
Thanks for reading,
So after the standoff, I have 2 projects that I find really pressing. First, I have a second bloodthirster that needs to be painted and it makes me sad a little to see such an amazing model unpainted on my workdesk. Secondly is a chaos slaanesh sorcerer. I have in game plans, but I also have the desire to make an awesome 25mm model. I have 60mm and above models that have gotten a LOT of “oohs” and “ahs” and consider myself a strong painter. Even my Epidemius model I considered of “Meh” quality was recognized at the recent painting competetion. That said, my 25mm and 40mm models have notoriously been lackluster. I am not sure why, likely because with daemons, the bigger models are also my kind of characters in game, but also I just like those massive models…hence the 2 9.5 inch tall thirsters…aka, buildings. So this sorcerer is an attempt to make a kick-ass 25mm model. I plan to throw all of my creative skill and painting talent into this guy to really blow people away. That said, I’ll show you my progress thus far-
Bloodthirster (working title will be Icethirster…)
Well, I got him with his wings glued on. Well, so I thought. Actually it was glued and GS’d around so solvents had no way to reach it. Also, solvents can hurt the resin. So I took the high road. Annnndddd, I chipped away at the GS to expose the rear of the wings, inserted shaping tool, and popped those bad boys off. Sounds simple…yeah, actually it took about 2 hours of mind-numbing scraping. Finally it turned out like THIS:
Yesterday, I magnetized his wings like they should have been originally. I plunked in a 25 mm neodine circle magnet with a 5 pound pull on it. One on the body, one on the wing. Yep…those bad boys aren’t falling off. Now that the pain in the ass part is over, I am going to start hammering out the exact scheme. I think it will be similar to my bloodletters, but transitioning to blue earlier. Start with dark grey, go to light grey, then to light blue, even lighter blue (think space wolf grey), then really light blue/white in areas. Veins and wing panels will start with dark blue and work up to bright blue. The straps will be black, armor will be brass. Horns will be ivory and brown I think. Eyes will be bright red. Hooves I am still unsure on. Will do OSL for his eyes. And as a coup-de-gras for bad-assery, after I finish, I decorate his axe, wings maybe, and other random spots with bloody icicles.
His base will be similar to my other thirster, but the lava will be ice with icy stalactites and bones littering the ice.
Ok, for the sorcerer. Here’s the basics. Started with a raptor with plasma pistol and CCW. Removed CCW and replaced with a whip from the exalted chariot of slaanesh kit.
Then I have him landing on a poor marine and blasting his face off with his plasma pistol. Well, here are the pics thus far.
Where he is now
Plans for marines face
How the pose looks
How the poor marine’s face looks now 😀
Jump pack thus far
Hair, and shoulderpads (due to the exagerated pose, I am using standard CSM pads (Slaanesh right, blank on left…will likely put a Emperors children symbol there).
My next thing is to make the jump pack spikey-er and nastier looking and to figure out how to do the marine’s arms.
Would love to hear comments, suggestions, or ideas!
Thanks for reading,
So my FLGS has concluded its annual large hobby tournament. Among the most people were fellow bloggers Thor from creative twilight and Shiny Rhino from Thin your Paint. Also in attendance was Ripped Dragon and Ming from B&C, Kamui and Lucas (both authors on creative twilight), and Dylan (who’s exact blog name I do not remember).
I’ll caveat my blog with a sincere apology. The day started out rough, and by the end of the day I had a headache and a toothache that radiated nearly to my bottom rib every throb. So yeah, to all in attendance if I seemed very blasé by the end, this is why.
Well, the highlight of my day was the opportunity to quickly pick the brains of Todd Swanson. I approached him with a model, asked him some advice, and got a quick thirty seconds of feedback. Frankly, more humbling than informative, but awesome to hear his advice, and sort of stokes e ego a bit when someone of that calibre says you did a particular technique pretty well…yep, pretty well is good for me 😀
Onto the games. I’ll ruin the suspense. I got beaten like a red-headed step child. My battle points were 3-25-3, totaling a whopping score of 31… Oh well. Looking back, I deployed poorly for my first game, my second game I was pretty satisfied with the results, and the third game I got terrible rolls all game, he got good rolls, and he stunted my progress early and thus I never got the momentum to pick it back up.
The first game was against tau-eldar. Deployed unwisely considering the range of my enemies armaments and deployed too close. This resulted in an initial setback that while I had the game in an upswing by the end, we ran out of time. Honest analysis is that had I had another turn I suspect I could have swung the points towards a tie or win for myself as my warp talons and typhus and havocs were all still in play and in good health and his lines had started to crumble or were rapidly disintegrating.
Second game was a repeat of the last Wednesday. Same player, same armies, I think even the same mission, I can’t remember. He played IG and Tau. It was a good run, and I ended up winning and not drawing due to some lucky rolls on my part. I learned a few key things- deploy the warp talons. Is more reliable and they possess the speed and toughness to weather the hits as they jump forward. Also, don’t stick typhus in the backfield with a support unit.
Game three I was massacred. Didn’t really learn a lot as the dice rolls were so hyper-polarized. He would roll 5 6’s then I’d roll 6 1 or 2’s. He was really cool and let me run typhus (last model on table) out until he died. WEll, after about 9 or 10 game turns, he had butchered about half of his army (2 full squads of wracks, a squad of grotesques, and two homunculus ICs I think). He had a LOT of boons.
Regardless, my takeaways for the day we pick the IC based on utility. I had chosen t thus because he was a fighter and stuck him with havocs or in reserve. I may have been better with a simple sorcerer for half the points and more flexibility. However, I will likely continue to use typhus in a role that befits him. Someday with a full squad of terminators beating face. Until then I think I’ll stick with the sorcerer.
Well, the good news last. My painting seems to have improved from lt year. I won second with my sorcerer and got an honorable mention with my Epidemius and my DPoT eyeball. All in all, I hope to continue my development of painting skills and I think I will start reworking my khorne stuff as it was painted first to give it a better look (mainly the crushers and blood letters).
Well, I will now start planning my next project. I have another Bloodthirster to paint and I have been sort of itching to field both the bubbas again. Maybe not super practical, but menacing and amazing to see two 10 inch tall daemon lords bearing down on some poor marine squad. 🙂
Also, I plan to start working on several painting techniques- marble, NMMs, and maybe OSL but gonna focus on getting the other two first as both with be amazing practice for my blending and fading skills (and people already do OSL, but no one does NMM at my FLGS).
All in all, had a great day. A special thanks to the judges, they really facilitated the day and really took one for the team as they didn’t play. Sort of makes me regret the fact that I will only get to do this with this great group only one more time.
Well, thanks for reading,