So, tired of running those “balanced” lists designed to win which I have never had success with, I put together an all-offense Khorne force.
Bloodthirsters x 2
2 Squads of Crushers (4 crushers in one, 5 in the other, both had all upgrades for wound abuse)
2 Squads of Bloodletters (Squad of 16 and squad of 8. Squad of 16 has icon)
2 squads of Hounds (8 each, both with rending on one model)
Daemon Prince of Khorne
The Disciples of Twilight
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
7 or 8 lesser daemons (can’t remember exactly)
2 squads of 5 plague marines in rhinos (1 with 2 meltas, 1 with 2 plasmaguns)
1 squad of 10 Khorne Bezerkers in rhino (with 2 plasma pistols)
3 squads of 2 obliterators
So, think that’s everything he had. Overall, looked to be a fun game, but I went into it with little expectation of winning against an army that looked like it was gonna pack an whollop at a distance. We opted to play Safeguard which can be found on Creative Twilight here.
He opted to go first, placing his objective in the ruins in the corner. I opted to deepstrike heavy and threaten all of his vehicles right off the bat. I got my preferred half of both thirsters, both squads of crushers, and the DPoK (which had deathstrike).
I dropped in along the center line.
I fired at the rhino with my DPoK (missed with my BS 5….sigh, never taking THAT again). Ran everyone else.
Top of 2 saw all of his stuff come in from reserve…all of it. His left side dread (the one near the ruins) rolled a “6” and opted to charge the bloodthirster…silly dreadnought. His lesser daemons also assaulted the bloodthirster (which had been reduced to a single wound from shooting), while shooting had also done 3 wounds to the DPoK and his greater daemon dropped in to finish him off. He also put a few wounds on the crushers. My turn two saw the soul grinder, both squads of bloodletters, and one squad of hounds. All dropped on the side of the crushers, hoping that the thirsters could fend off and hold the right flank. He assaults the thirster which killed the dread, but was finished off by the lesser daemons. During my turn 2 I assault the daemon prince of Nurgle (DPoN) and put 2 or 3 wounds on him while also assaulting his right flank oblits with my crushers and trying to hurt the rhino with the bezerkers in it and failing miserably. My Daemon prince of Khorne also died turn 2 to his greater daemon.
His turn 3, his other dread goes insane and attacks my crushers who get a lucky rend off and kill the dread. The oblits fire some more, and he assaults the bloodthirster with his other daemon prince and the lesser daemons. To save time of mentioning this, this combat runs on until the end of turn 4, resulting in the thirster (and some hounds) killing off the daemon princes and the lesser daemons, plus two oblits that jump into the fray. His greater daemon also assaults my bloodletters and kills 2, taking 3 wounds himself. Making his fearless save, this combat goes on during my assault phase with little to show from it. My turn three saw me chasing down and assaulting the bezerker rhino, stunning it and immoblizing it.
Turn 4 saw the bezerkers handily turning the tides of the battle against the bloodletters where they all died. With the DPoN dead (bottom of 3 I think), he commits his oblits which allows me to pick up extra wounds in the assault phase (ID the oblits at S8). This allowed me to stick another wound to the DPoT. The thirster took his first wound. During my turn 4 I assaulted the rhino with the soul grinder destroying it, the bezerkers with the crushers killing them, the greater daemon with my bloodletters killing it, and sending my hounds into the thirster fight. Oh, and the 4 unit squad of crushers were still heading across the table to get into some action! (Which they never saw…)
Oh, and somewhere in here my second squad of hounds shows up (turn 4 I believe). You can see them in the picture of the crusher above as to where they landed.
Turn 5 fires at the hounds some, but I finally manage to kill the DPoT (which turned a hound to a spawn!). I kill the spawn as well, winning combat by 4 which ends up killing the last of the lesser daemons. He contests my objective with a rhino with plaguemarines which shoot up my squad of bloodletters in cover (killing 2). I square off and assault with my bloodletters during my turn to destroy the rhino, as well as surrounding the far rhino on his objective with hounds hoping for a wrecked result. The thirster assaults the last 2 oblits. All assaults succeded, exploding the bloodletters rhino, wrecking the hounds rhino (killing the occupants), and the thirster finished off the oblits.
We get a turn 6, with him having only the plague marines. They assault the remaining 5 bloodletters, killing 2. On my turn, the bloodcrushers assault, killing the rest of the plague marines.
Overall, a great game and a reminder as to why I love 40K and daemons. One of the funnest games I’ve played in a long time and hope to run this list again!
Thanks for reading, off to bed!
So, as I look back over my past tourney list and wonder what went well, what went poorly I realize the money maker was the infantry. So I sit down and crank the numbers.
SO if I run a normal ‘ard boyz grossness list (2500 points)
If I ran 4 platoons with 4 squads each, each with a melta gun and lascannon that makes 16 melta and 16 lascannons. Then you add a platoon command squad with 2 plasma guns and a lascannon totaling 8 plasma guns and 20 lascannons now and 4 plasma pistols (platoon leader). PLUS, each SGT and commissar has a power weapon (1 commissar per platoon) with a powerfist in the platoon command squads added with straken and you have a total of 20 power weapons in the army and 4 power fists, and placed well they all have counter attack and furious charge (because big blogs are easy to string out).
Add onto this a command squad in a chimera with straken with medic, vox caster, and krak grenades and it leaves you room for 2 PBS with 8 psykers each.
So now you have an army that can pump out a LOT of anti-tank and if you get within 12″ (so 18″ at the start the guardsmen’s movement) and he can first rank fire, second rank fire that means a whopping 24 lasguns per platoon with 3 shots each totaling to 72 shots. At BS3, 36 will hit. If I have to roll a 5 to wound a marine, that means 12 wounds, which then means 4 die. Since most squads are less than 16, and I didn’t count the lascannons or melta guns, that means that lasguns alone, under 12″, can break a marine squad quite handily and send it packing. And if you assault it. Well, you are going to face 20 power weapon attacks PLUS 68 regular attacks. That’s a lot of attacks, I don’t care who you are.
SO, to the point. Nasty huh. Is it a winner? *Shrug*. But it is certainly brutal in my opinion, and it mirrors similar winning lists I have seen of IG. HOWEVER.
That is 16 squads (less 16 heavy weapon bases, which means 160-32= 128) which comes out to 13 squad boxes. Plus 4 platoon command boxes (less 4 heavy weapon teams which equals 20-8=12) round up to 3, a chimera, company command box, Straken, 16 PBS guys (blisters of 3) so 6 blisters, and 20 heavy weapon bases (boxes of 3) so 7 boxes.
Let’s add that up shall we?
13*29=377 dollars for the infantry
38.75*7=271.25 for the heavy weapons
4*25= 100 for the command squads
6*15=90 for the PBS
377+35+271.25+15+100+90=888.25 for the army. That’s a lot. BUT, it’s cheaper if you use tanks (not gonna break it down, but when you spend 50 for a single unit that can cost upwards of 250 points, that’s a LOT cheaper). It’s also cheaper to use an army like Grey knights. Let’s run THOSE numbers shall we?
5*50=250 for 25 terminators/paladins
15 for an assassin
22.5 for a librarian
22.25 for draigo
66 for stormraven
133.5 for 3 dreads
21.5 for techmarine
That’s 530.75 for an army that I am sure goes over 2500 (I just ran the numbers, don’t have the codex).
So, while that’s still a lot, it’s almost 350 dollars exactly cheaper than the IG option.
SO, the moral of this story is that budget is also a balancing factor. So if you are among those bitching that the price of some models have gone up, check stuff like this. Not saying that’s the reason, but it’s always frustrating to see a guy slap some stuff together he got off the internet for the cheapest cost and run up against veteran players and stomp them because of the army, not because of practice or experience. That might make it fun for some, but it ruins the time of experienced players who feel that they have built their armies over time to have a balanced force to run across min aramies with only the units to build these lists with. GW may be trying to counter this by balancing this out, that way you can’t go in and say I am gonna buy the minimum stuff to win and avoid buying over time. Higher costs prevent army hopping as well, so when a new book comes out 50% of tourney entries aren’t the new book (because the people who USED to play that book often find that annoying). Higher prices don’t hurt the hobby, they actually help it, forcing people to develop lists and gradually build armies. I haven’t seen what is going up, but I have heard suggestions that armies such as GK, BA, some codex marine units, SW, and other top tier armies. Remember, GW has overhead even for the models they don’t sell a lot of, so it makes sense to push a higher price to the models that EVERYONE buys which both makes more money and also serves to possibly balance the community dispersion of armies.
just my 2 cents
So, went to my FLGS monthly tourney yesterday with the rat guard. It was 1850, ran my standard list.
First game was against Tau. He was new to the list, and fresh back into 40k, so between me still getting used to setting up my force, him and me checking tau rules, and explaining some of my rules to him we were cutting into playtime fast. We ended getting 3 full turns… not great, but not as bad as it could be. He got hammered bad turn 1, came back and did not too bad to end with 23 me, 10 him.
Second game was against a mechanized IG army with FW IA autocannon turrets, vet abilities on the vehicles (+1 to armor pen), and some command tank. So AC with S8 for purpose of damaging vehicles. Suffice to say, I got hammered, but through KP denial managed to take the KP victory, giving him 21 or 22 and I got 10. I DID learn that barrage hits SIDE armor if the hole is above the hole.
Last game against Necrons. With my shooting lists, I have yet to find a strong means to hammer necrons down (Daemons on the other hand eat them for lunch). Was going pretty well until we looked at the clock. CRAP, 15 minutes left and it was his turn (he went second) which meant that I wouldn’t be able to adjust for last turn. He ended up taking full BP. I learned the good lesson to pay attention to the damn clock. I could have easily tied primary, to at least net me 8 (plus the 1 bonus) to equal 9 instead of 1. 🙂
I DID learn how brutal first rank fire second rank fire was though. I am very strongly considering taking more infantry and less artillery or tank.
THAT SAID, I think I will be going back to my daemons for next month. While playing the rats was fun, and for it being my first tourney with them a win, minor loss, and a massacre caused largely by lack of attention to detail I feel it could have been much worse, the rats lacked the pop that daemons have. I believe it may have been the moderation of the games. With my daemons have rarely had a day of running middle of the road. Normally I fall in the middle pack by scoring one really big loss (game 1) followed by a big win (game 2) followed by a moderate win or draw (game 3). Plus the options for IG don’t really allow for the hilarity of daemons. Because let’s face it, with an army of little shooting (none in my case), all deep strike, and every other action based on a die roll there will be REALLY high ups, and REALLY low downs. None of this “middle of the road” crap.
THUS, I will be returning to daemons to run my mono-khorne monstrosity. I am dubious if it will succeed in the least, but I felt that way about my mono-nurlge and low and behold I found myself at table 1 game 3 in that tournament. SO, I’m not about to count out 2000 points of power weapons or MC. We shall see though. If that flops, then perhaps mono slaanesh or back to Mono-nurlge.
Thanks for reading,
So I show up last night at my FLGS to play a game with 1850 guard army that i had run the previous week. however, my opponent only had 1455 points so I ended up dropping:
The armored crew compartment from the basilisk
Camo cloaks from command squad
Missile launcher squad
Plasma pistol from the sgt of 1st squad
2 psykers (1 from each PBS)
Think that was it. Well, he ran
squad of 5 wolfguard
ven. dread w/ assault cannon
Dread with TLLC
3 grey hunter squads with meltaguns/plasma guns
think that was about it.
So a foot army with almost no armor against an artillery army? Well this was starting to be bed for him.
Also it was his 6th game. Not as crippling as one might think, he had played in a previous tournament and come out pretty good.
So we rolled a random mission. It was KP (Not bad, I fielded 11, he fielded 9) but it meant I could gunline it on the back edge.
Then he rolled deployment. Dawn of War. Well, that was bad for him. Looking back, I should have just shifted it to pure pitched battle, but I didn’t. Then I rolled to deploy first.
SOOO, I take my vets, my infantry platoon (I love that they deploy as a single choice) and the lord commisar.
Ok, I am now going to skip the details, get to the end. By the end of turn 4, he had I think 9-12 models on the table. He had killed 6 models (4 vets, 2 guardsmen). The game had been stacked from turn 1 and I knew it. He had to walk 48″ through 3 lascannons, 3 pieces of artillery, 2 PBS, and should he get close he would have to face 4 melta guns, a heavy flamer, and a hail of flashlights. Ultimately, he never crossed the 24″ line with any unit save the the wolfguard. Turn 4 he said he had had enough.
He told me afterwards he had learned a lot, and was glad he played which made me happy to hear. He plans to add rhinos, long fangs, and some speeders to his force which will help him a lot.
Overall, had a great time. Looking forward to this Saturday!
Thanks or reading,
So I sat down and started working on my tanks. Sick of fielding half-ass abominations, so I started working towards what I wanted. Still have to get spikey chaos bitz to go on some of the stuff (While the Cordos rats aren’t chaos, they aren’t very friendly either…well, at least not to the Imperium) and these have the appropriate level of gore that I am looking for.
Here is the Griffon:
Still have some GS work around the edges of the car that the rats are mounted on, and want to touch up the bolts (as well as the rats themselves). The cannon (for those who don’t recognize it, it’s a demolisher cannon) will get some GS work on the sides and at the base to fill in the gaps. The holes will largely remain empty (might put some rat tails or heads sticking out on some of them however).
Here is some painting done on the devil dog:
Got some washing to do, highlights, then I think I’ll be ready to attach the wheels and start working on the outer pieces!
Lastly, the manticore/deathstrike:
For this, I was looking for something grisly and just downright gruesome. Something to indicate the importance of the manticore (well, the weapon the rats strapped to a chimera chassis really). Thus, I felt a pile of bodies on the hull was appropriate. Well, that’s ALWAYS appropriate in 40K 😀
They don’t look very good now, but after it gets painted it’ll look much better.
Well, that’s my progress thus far.
Thanks for reading, as always love to hear comments and suggestions,
So this past Wednesday, I face off against an Ultramarine Player who normally ran a Kantor Castle style of play. I figured, before I saw his list, that I knew his list. However, he was running a vulcan Melta/Flamer list. My rats survive on cover saves. This was bad news bears for my list. But his melta was limited in range, and we were playing Divide and Conquer like I had the previous week. Lots of area terrain combined with a spearhead deployment led to realize I had to take a dominating lead early or fall under gruesome melta/Flamer fire.
So, I ran the following list:
Company Command Squad w/ Creed and Kell
Lord Commisar w/ Camo cloak and power weapon
2 PBS with 7 psykers each
Infantry Platoon with 3 squads (totaling 2 LC, 1 AC, and 1ML along with 2 MG, 1 GL, and 1 SR) with a commisar
1 vet squad with LC, 2 MG, 1 Heavy Flamer
Devil Dog w/ Multi-Melta
Ordnance Battery w/ Griffon and Colossus
Ordnance Battery w/ Basilisk
He was running (IIRC):
Libby in TDA w/ Avenger and Nullzone
5 Terminators w/ 3 THSS and 2 LC in a LR Crusader (the one with Flamestorm cannons spontons)
1 Venerable dread w/ MM and heavy flamer in drop pod
5 man tac squad in Razorback with TLMM (he was running them under the IA Razorback rules which allows TL MM as an option)
5 man tac squad in Razorback with TLMM
10 man tac squad w/ MM and MG
2 Landspeeders w/ MM and heavy flamers
2 attack bikes w/ MM
Yep…that’s a whole lotta melta weapons. 😛 Glad it’s spearhead.
So I win roll-off. This is our initial setup.
The devil dog had scouted up the center t get that close. I wasn’t cheating 😀
Again, I knew I had to take the lead early. He had the drop podded dread and Speeders which would both deepstrike with flamers and melta weapons. Before I lost tanks, I would want to hammer into his lines.
I fire the manticore first at the LR (immediately regretting putting my devil dog RIGHT next to it basically). Score 2 hits, 2 pens, and a 6 to damage. Things were off to a good start.
I then, through the rest of firing managed to kill only a single terminator, kill one bike and put a wound on the other (Wound from something else, and the one dead was from the manticore), stun the right side Razorback (as I am looking at it) as well as immobilized it, and shot at the left razorback with no success from the Devildog…epic fail. Here is how my turn ended.
He then goes on the offensive, destroys the Devil Dog (not surprisingly so) and starts to maneuver his right side razorback around. He also drops the dread in and destroys the basilisk’s Earthshaker cannon and a few guardsmen from the heavy flamer.
Turn 2 saw me stunning the Right razorback and Left Razorback, destroying the dread, and pinning the terminators with the PBS/Mortar combo (Gotta love pinning). At this point, my opponent was getting concerned at my lurching ahead early out of the gates and reducing his mobility.
Turn 2 for him he boosted his bike, got his Speeders…mishapped his speeders, and luckily got them sent back into reserve. He had fled the terminators back during my turn and re consolidated and started to move forward.
I maneuver some myself, running my vets into the left section on my end of the table, and immobilize his last Razorback capable of moving (assuming it’s not stunned). Turn 3 He brought his bike into range and started firing on my platoon with the meltabike and the right razorback (no longer stunned). At this point, I was getting nervous as my forward momentum had started to stall out.
I manage to kill his last of the bikes, rip the TLMM off the Razorback, and destroy the TLMM off the other razorback as well. I also finished off the drop pod. I fire the Colossus and Griffon at the dismounted marines and manage to kill 2 of 5.
During his turn he moved around, largely without result. However, he does manage to get his speeders in and deepstrikes them and manages to land in MM range of the Manticore (which I had saved my 4th missile for turn 5). He then manages to destroy it. 😦
Turn 5 I was concerned about my lack of progress the last 2 turns. Thus, I decided to try to take out the weaker targets. Destroy the Speeders and attempt to pop the razorbacks to open his troops to fire the following turn. Well…I did destroy the speeders, but I was destined to only glance those razorbacks. With my Basilisk and Manticore gone and his Razorbacks behind cover, he managed to avoid being destroyed.
His turn 5 I don’t think he fired a single time. He spread out, made sure his men were in the appropriate sections and we rolled for it. A “2”… Damn.
He took primary with each of us holding our 2 sections on our own side, and him holding a dominant lead in the center with 700 something to my 458 VP. Again…damn. I took the KP with a 5-1 KP (he got the manticore, but this was the only unit actually destroyed). Objectives we split, each having 2. Then for the quaternary I got a + 3 to his +1. Thus he ended up with 19 and I had 16.
Overall, a close game. I should have not focused fire on the terminators once they were on foot though and shifted fire to vulcan instead of the libby and terminators. And I shouldn’t have saved that last manticore missile. 😦 Oh well, a good game and a good time was had by all. I will say I like the colossus and it will appear in future games.
Thanks for reading,
So my FLGS continues to plan future hobby-centric tournament. One sticking point, yay or nay for EVERYONE is comp. So I will now list how I see comp (good, bad, and ugly):
Well, first I will say I support comp. I love the fiction behind 40k, it’s what sets it apart from some other games (not just the codex fiction, but the plethora of other fiction works that support it, literally tens of thousands of pages of work). But that said, I understand it’s not for everyone. So here are my opinions supporting comp-
o Spam. You know it, odds are you’ve played against it, and you either love it or hate it. From my experience, most players may not hate it but it leads to less interesting games. Running against SW or BA Vehicle spam or IG guard/Melta/LC spam, it’s never fun (well, at least for me). Comp shouldn’t really ban this, as some armies REALLY do need to spam to play at least semi-competetively. BUT, I feel comp SHOULD inhibit this behavior. A well designed comp-rubric should limit units/vehicles/transports so that repetition is not seen beyond occasional dublicates.
o “Broken Lists”. Say what you want, some lists are very strong not because of the players. A good example is the “Draigo-Wing” list. Draigo-Techmarine-Libby-Paladin combo in stormraven WILL be an ugly list. Back that up with Psyfleman dreads and a trained monkey could put up a fight with this list against anyone. I have seen reference to an article that suggests that some armies are stronger to give newer players a better chance (because no one likes getting clubbed repeatedly). My issue is when good players run these armies with known lists (Known as “net-lsits”). At hobby events I see lists like these to be cryptonite to the concept of hobby events. you’re not there to beat – face on a bunch of fluffy lists and then go pat yourself on the back. Fun is the key, but one person obliterating three opponents with gross lists endangers three peoples fun time. 3 people having bad games so that one person can giggle because they beat them is not the concept of a hobby event, in my mind. These lists DO have their place, play them at most any tournement. Comp stops these lists, or at least curbs their appearance, with the ability to limit HQ/Troop/Other group ratios. Many net-lists are very elite-HQ-Fast heavy while light on the troops and often incur spamming. Take the Draigo win list. In it’s most common form, it rocks 2 HQ, 2-3 elites (Tech marine and an assassin), 2 squads of paladins, storm raven, and normally as many dreads as they can fit (normally 1-4). This list would be hit heavy under comp/
o Themed lists. Some people come up with some AWESOME ideas, conversions, and themes for armies. These tend to come out of the woodworks when rewarded for it. Some people out there do AMAZING work and I love to have it across the table from me.
Some things suck about comp. period.
o Codex options were published from, really, the past better part of a decade and 2 editions. Some struggle WITHOUT restrictions, and after adding comp they find themselves frustrated that much more…Tau, I’m looking at you.
o New players sometimes only have x,y, and z models. To tell them they can’t use x or z could often mean they won”t show. I am of mixed opinions of brand new players at hobby-centric tournaments. A part of me says that it sucks, let them play their options, but the other part says that they bought x, y, and z because these are the units for “net-lists”. Rarely do you see a new GK player fielding Coteaz, a bunch of mixed henchmen, nameless HQs, things like Exitor assassin, or interceptors. Normally you see Draigo, Paladins, and Techmarines and thus comp limiting this can actually force a new player to explore his own codex more and become a better player rather than leaning on units to play well.
Arguments. Man, I have seen people get super-defensive about comp. It’s a heated subject, and can detract from the overall environment in a community if pushed too hard.
So, these are my opinions on comp. I’m sure most readers will have their own opinions, and I would love to hear them